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Mark- “The Big Lebowski”
Nice repertoire!
The DC
Mark Gill: Yep, we really do need a pub and a few drinks.
We’ve gone from arguing (debating) about a movie, to discussing education, comedians and the modern socio-political state.
Lost In Translation. I could use that as a title of a book. What do you think?
Lost In Translation: Modern Political Debate On The Internet (or) How To Make Yourself Look Like A Fool In Front of The Entire World. (Book One) By F.E. Spencer
Because you just KNOW there are enough ways to accomplish the latter that it would require more than just one book.
THE DC: Eddie Izzard and Dennis Miller, two more great comedians I sometimes borrow from if the situation requires it. Oddly enough, I wasn’t actually familiar with Lewis Black until I was in a rather public venue energetically venting my spleen when another person pointed out that I sounded a great deal like Mr. Black. Obviously my curiosity was piqued, and I had to check him out. My friends and I like to debate about which of us vents better.
I like that you pointed out the jettisoned Kirk issue. I remember just goggling at the screen, and wondering “What the hell, hasn’t this guy heard of a brig?” Of course, there wasn’t any other way for Kirk to find both Spock (prime) and Scotty. The entire ice planet thing was just a way to ensure that Kirk would go walking rather than set up camp next to his pod.
I have the feeling that this one moive is going to provide fodder for a long time to come. Never mind the overall effect it will have on the franchise as a whole. It should be……fun?
Frank
Moeskido:
I understand exactly what you mean. I find that sarcasm is a very refined art, and as such rarely enjoys moving between mediums. Sort of like a print of an oil painting. Sure you get the image, but so much else is missing.
Maybe one of these days, I’ll just start answering by making youtube videos and linking to them. That could be interesting. Of course, it sort of violates the spirit of the internet by creating another digital divide. Oh, isn’t life just grand. LOL
Frank
Somebody mention George Carlin?
He’s practically an unknown here in the UK but George is (or ‘was’ I suppose
) one of my all time heroes! A self-proclaimed student of human behaviour, he took apart the species and offered an opinion on all that we do and say, both good and bad! (well, mainly bad haha!!) His opinions were often extreme I grant you but his anecdotes, analyses, societal and political commentaries and just plain goofing about left its mark on me in many ways right from those impressionable teenage years to now, throughout which his opinions often informed my own to some degree! He also appreciated how the English language is used (or misused) by the media, politicians, salesmen etc. and he was often excruciatingly well justified (“The Ten Commandments” anyone? “The Planet is Fine” anyone?? )
Thanks to the internet I was able to complete my CD-library of George Carlin material and I’ve lapped it all hundreds of times; in my opinion he was simply the best stand up comic of all time!! Unfortunately I don’t see anyone around now who can pick up where George left off…
I’d be surprised if George was into Star Trek though! – eeek!!
Frank & Mark- Yea, a few pints never hurt conversation.
You may be right about Snack Trek [which after seeing Grindhouse today, I'm thinking of re-labeling Grind Trek! Same level of quality of story] generating convo. Too bad is of a polar debate of its qualities. I remember chatting about episodes of TOS [Return of the Archons, A piece of the Action, Doomsday Machine] to explore their social relevance and efficacy of the messages proffered by the writers. Very different conversations. People still disagreed, but there was more unity because there was a sense that the debate was interpretation of intent, not over the merits of the product. Much more edifying discussions. TOS was good about launching those discussions as a medium; I enjoyed that oportunity.
Someone challenged Doug last night about whether some of us felt left out in the making of the current movie; thus the sour grapes. Shame people don’t see that the sour grapes come from that Trek was used to make vinegar, not wine, and the disdain is the result of the debasing of the medium, not that things were just different or some of us were left out. I can’t speak for Doug, but I would have enjoyed a new chapter, even with variation, were it of a caliber of writing exceeding a video game. A parallel theme, done well, would have been worth it.
As it is now, I’d be tempted to file a class action suit for miss-advertising, just to send a message to ego centric ‘artists’ [ala; Jon Lovitz]. I’d find a debate with JJ quite refreshing and cathartic; tough I doubt he’d handle the heat (Hear me out there, Lost Boy? Any time any place!!!). Unfortunately, Old Melvin Belli has passed on…the Gorgon might have actually filed it for me….
Ever happens though, gentlemen; the drinks will be on me!
The DC
Maybe surprised Stu. During my tenior, I met tons of people who were closet Trek fans…many you’d never believe. TOS stirred up alot in people. It game them somthing to think about.
The DC
To THE DC: thanks for the recommendations, I’ll see if I can get a copy. Regarding the characters… well, they certainly aren’t “our” Kirk, Spock and crew, but after all, this is an alternate timeline, this James T. Kirk lost his father on the very same day he was born, and apparently he grew up with a stepfather who was more interested in his hobbies than in his stepson. I’m hoping he’ll eventually evolve and become more like “our” Kirk. As for Spock… I’m not too sure about how “our” Spock’s childhood and youth was, he certainly was still a bit emotional aboard Pike’s Enterprise in “The Cage”, and well, Vulcans in their natural state are supposed to be even more emotional than humans, it’s just that in the past, Surak emerged and realized they had to control their emotions if they wanted to survive[*], and after that they have been taught since young age how to control their emotions – but it’s something they have to be *taught*, and Spock being half-human has always had the implication that he had to try harder to achieve that control. And this Spock witnessed the destruction of his planet (well, one of them) and the death of his mother, under such circumstances it should be expected that it would be even harder for him to control his emotions. Let’s see what becomes of him over time, there’s “our” Spock still around who may eventually appear again to guide him. Maybe I’m being too optimistic, I’m just hoping those are the plans for the characters – we’ll have to wait and see.
As for the current situation of the general public… I was horrified back then in 1993 when I went to the theatre to watch “Jurassic Park” and I heard the audience *laughing* at the lawyer being devoured by that T-Rex. I heard some time ago that Hugo Chavez’s government had fined a TV station in Venezuela for showing that movie in a children’s time slot, and for once, I don’t criticize him for that. Audiences have progressively become insensitized to the suffering of others. It’s been a long time since TV stations around here started showing gross images of injured and dead people (and I mean partial or total disifiguration and/or mutilation) on the news, in a competition to boost their ratings. And then you have reality shows… certainly the media have been influencing people in negative ways lately. Unfortunately, I think the only way to improve the situation would be if, like in the UK, there was a tax on the owners of TV sets and the money from that tax went to the networks… right now, TV is nothing other than a business that sells advertising spaces and places some programs in between commercials to attract the audiences so that they’ll be watching when the commercials are shown. And the programs are being progressively shortened to fit more commercials – it may eventually end in something where the commercials *are* the programs, but for now, networks are interested in drawing as wide an audience as possible so that they can charge more for their advertising spaces, that’s what causes the “rating wars” which progressively fill the programming with more “trash shows” (because “that’s what people like”, as the late presenter of a local show used to say – if they aren’t given a better alternative, or worse, they don’t even know that better alternatives *can* exist, they will of course eventually like whatever crap they’re given). If networks don’t need to rely anymore on selling advertising space and become subsidized instead, we should hopefully start seeing an improvement in the quality of the programming. Of course, people would scream at the proposal of having to pay in order to watch TV when they currently get it for free – they don’t realize they’re already paying for it indirectly when they buy something they saw advertised on TV. With movies it’s not quite the same, but I’ve seen the collapse of movie theatres in this country some 20 years ago – those who managed to survive did so by subdividing into several smaller ones, so that they could be showing several different movies at the same time to draw more people – it’s easier to fill 6 theatres showing 6 different movies with some 200 viewers each than to fill one single theatre showing one single movie with some 1200 viewers. And distributors only bring “guaranteed blockbusters” nowadays – lots of other films don’t get a chance anymore. With luck, a “cine club” may eventually show them. Or you could find illegal copies of them and finally be able to watch them (the “legal” home video market having shrunk even more than the cinemas, which I blame on the biggest distributor, who almost have a monopoly with all the bad consequences of such a thing).
I’ve typed a lot again… and I have more I want to add, but now I must sleep, I must wake up by 7am to go to work tomorrow and it’s already 12:30, couldn’t post earlier because it was my father’s birthday and we’ve spent the day with the family. Basically, I see your point, and I agree, but I’m hoping things may improve and want to give this a chance. If it doesn’t, well, I’ll be just as disappointed as you already are.
Good night everyone, and I’m sorry if I bored you…
[*]Just in the same way that humanity as a species sucks and the only reason we’ve managed to survive this long in spite of our natural tendencies towards self-extermination is because now and then some, err, enlightened individual appears and comes up with a philosophy, religion or set of laws which effectively prevent the rest from killing each other.
machf – I remember the scene in Jurassic Park where the lawyer gets eaten by the T-Rex; can’t recall whether or not that had the audience laughing though, I was probably mesmerised by the fact that there was arguably the best looking T-Rex ever rendered on screen doing its thing! I wouldn’t have been horrified by the laughing though in fact as I recall the “blood sucking lawyer” was sat on the can at the time and as I type this line I can’t help but smirk! Comedy is everywhere and in everything and it can get pretty dark on occasion but that’s just a matter of taste. Wylie Coyote was always discovering new and interesting ways to kill himself a dozen times an episode, tell me that wasn’t funny! I laughed my ass off!
I’d like to acknowledge your point about the ‘quality’ of television. Back in the nineties I remember that there was so much being aired that directly acknowledged my interests and my personal opinions on what good entertainment was but now as the noughties draw to a close I’m finding that terrestrial digital television has not only provided me with very little to watch (down to about 7 or 8 hours a week now!) but these channels seem to be cancelling the few shows that I’m getting into and bombarding its schedules with stuff I absolutely detest. Let’s not beat around the bush: Soaps and reality television and phone-vote shows; it’s despicable roots are firmly planted and it’s not going anywhere and I blame it for plunging the last half dozen nails into the coffin that Star Trek: Enterprise was buried in! (yeah I’m a little bitter!). Lets face it, the powers that be want big ratings and big returns and zero expenditure; Enterprise was an expensive show to make and pulling in a fraction of the ratings the reality shows were boasting and they all enjoy relatively low production costs and revel in their massive massive ratings! – Folks I bet you, that in some parallel universe somewhere Star Trek: The Next Generation has just revived the Star Trek franchise after a 40 year absence from television, the only problem is that now it’s competing with reality television – The mighty Next Generation would not stand a chance! Thank god that in our universe that show arrived in 1987!
Now I’m gonna dump on our fellow man here: Human beings, this year, this month, this week, today… Right now, this very minute – The model is at its pinnacle, the best it has ever been. Now I know it’s a little melodramatic to be judging the species on the kind of entertainment it enjoys but it’s one of the few things that everyone has in common; entertainment is sooo important to everyone; so much so in fact that a person can manage to afford to satisfy this need even if they are plagued by a lifestyle that keeps them in the red! So, entertainment is important to us all and yet look at what the majority is watching… Big Brother! Big-bleeding-Brother! A dozen people who get told to jump through hoops for a food budget and in the in-between moments after they discover they can’t maintain a level of politeness any longer, they’re at each others throats because someone finished the last of the lemonade or something. Lots of yelling, lots of crying, lots of grief and misery and when they leave, their audience is abusive and cruel! Great entertainment folks, meanwhile the ratings for that show goes through the stratosphere and shows that were once considered great entertainment (err… say… I don’t know, Star Trek: Enterprise) gets taken off the air! It’s a joke!! It doesn’t impress me at all and believe me, it doesn’t usually take much! (haha!) Reality TV – I call it fast food television! Too much is not healthy; you’ll get fat! But the world loves it! This model of audience truly escape me!
In the Next Gen. episode: “The Neutral Zone” Data mentions that television doesn’t last as one of the main mediums of entertainment much beyond the year 2040 – Personally, I’d say it was already on it’s way out! Television is getting used for something else now…
Amen Stu! It’s gotten to the point, for me at least, that I only watch Star Trek, Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis, Top Gear, Mock the Week and the news on the “regular” channels.
Mostly, I’m watching documentaries and recorded live performances on BBC 4 or the Yesterday channel. And that’s about once or twice a week. I’m mostly listening to radio these days or re-reading one of my books.
That’s how unappealing I find TV programming these days.
Stu said:
Amen. Unfortunately it isn’t just the big networks, it is almost of the pay cable/satellite channels too!
This is a rant of mine as well… For example: In America, TV Land was once a network that held my favorite ’60s TV shows which I grew up seeing on Nick at Nite and in syndication on local channels during the day time. It has completely changed focus, it was an all retro TV channel, now it has 2 reality TV shows and seems to think television produced in the ‘80 such as Roseanne and The Cosby Show are appropriate to be shown??!!! Good luck finding Leave it to Beaver execept sporadically on the weekends, for some reason they think Andy Grifith is worth showing daily though… I Dream of Genie, Bewitched, Get Smart, Dragnet, My 3 Sons, I Love Lucy, and many more were what the network started with in the late ’90s. Lucy got sold off to The Halmark Channel randomly earlier this year, and the rest have disappeared from the American TV landscape.
Apart from BSG, Sci-Fi channel (now being rebranded as “Scy-Fy” so it can be copywrited) wouldn’t know good shows if it hit them. They once ran TOS episodes in 1.5 hour timeslots so they could show them uncut! They used to run Doctor Who seasons right behind the BBC now they don’t really at all.
To get a tiny piece of the shows I want back I’d have to upgrade my digital cable subscription to the top tier so I can get the random channels like Hallmark and BBC America that sometimes show good stuff, but only sometimes. In that insainely expensive tier I’d need to subscribe to I would also get 200+ other channels filled with junk I don’t care a hoot about
bread and circuses……
tonight, live, an execution, brought to you by the jupiter 6…..
thats WHY we loved TOS…and why we all found this blog…..:)
its not about “two vs three nacelles”- never really was.
c3:)